Curse

Winstar · Dec 04, 2009, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Hello,

I wasn't sure if this post should be in the tech corner or here, but I opted for here given I'm looking for feedback from the perspective of graphic artists and those familiar with using GIMP, Photoshop etc. etc.

I've always loved art, and about three months ago I decided to dive in and start doing some web design and art. I'm officially ready to smash my head into the wall because of the mouse, but being a relatively poor student I haven't been in the position to do something about it until this lovely Christmas season. I was wondering about your experiences and recommendations regarding tablet PCs and separable tablets (Wacom etc.). If you have any suggestions as to good web resources for info on this as well it would be greatly appreciated. My goals are to put whatever I get to use in sketching/drawing and design. Being pretty new at this I'm sure there are many things to look our for that I don't even know to ask about.

Thanks so much.

GeminiJuSa · Dec 04, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

The greatest tip I can give you when working with a mouse and photoshop is that you use the pen tool for the line art and that you scan a sketch you make on a real paper as the model, but maybe you already tried that?

On the tablet part:
when first using a tablet, do not expect the results you get with a normal pen. Personally I almost started crying in frustration the first time I used it. My tip towards mastery is take a break, maybe for a few hours or a day, then try again with less expectations.

How to get the lines straight and now wobbly: The thinner the line, the closer the zoom.

I have a Trust tablet. They are a little less refined than wacom, but I think they are also cheaper. I wouldn't know since I got mine from a dear friend who wasn't using it.

I hope I was on the subject now and didn't misread what kind of help you wanted ^^;

-----------
EDIT:

I tried a tablet PC, a version where you spin the screen and lay it over the keypad and draw on it like a paper. It had a horrible calculation and was a real mess to work with. It was easier once to knew kinda where to expect the offset. Only tried it in MSpaint though since it wasn't powerful enough for photoshop.

Bob Slydell · Dec 04, 2009, 09:47 PM // 21:47

I used an external tablet before, in fact I still have it somewhere but I never got it right, it was pretty hard to use. I'd go for a tablet PC, but heres thing thing...you should get the tablet PC kind that dosent respond to any touch except for a special pen that can only be used for it. Not sure what those types of tablet PC are called but I can say they are much better than the regular touch kind.

x sithis x · Dec 04, 2009, 10:18 PM // 22:18

i have this it was only $90 then S&H but still cheap imo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-057-_-Product

it works great but if u afford it get the tablet pc ... out of my price range is why dont have one lol

Winstar · Dec 04, 2009, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Wow, thanks for all quick feedback. I was messing around with an HP tablet PC in store today and I had a good time, though I can definitely tell its going to take a fair bit of work to get used to.

One thing that someone told me was that the wacom type tablets were more difficult to work with given you don't see on the tablet what it is you're doing with the pen. I know it shows up on the screen obviously, but I was told it was a sort of awkward back and forth - again I haven't tried one out yet, but I can sort of see that.

On the other hand, it sounds like the tablet PC is better in the above respect, but from what has been said the screen responsiveness is not that great.

Anyway, thanks again, and if there is more feedback please keep it coming

. Greatly appreciated.

x sithis x · Dec 04, 2009, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winstar

One thing that someone told me was that the wacom type tablets were more difficult to work with given you don't see on the tablet what it is you're doing with the pen. I know it shows up on the screen obviously, but I was told it was a sort of awkward back and forth - again I haven't tried one out yet, but I can sort of see that.

lol when i use my wacom i dont even look at the tablet tbh ... i just look at the screen ... i did go to school for art and taught to look at the subject more then you paper so idk if it was just that training xD

Winstar · Dec 04, 2009, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Thats probably it as the person who told me this has 0 training.

mathiastemplar · Dec 05, 2009, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by x sithis x

lol when i use my wacom i dont even look at the tablet tbh ... i just look at the screen ... i did go to school for art and taught to look at the subject more then you paper so idk if it was just that training xD

THIS!

lol, I use a Wacom bamboo(a5) which is a great tablet..

Cheers!

Songbringer · Dec 05, 2009, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Cheap fix. Didn't read all the posts but read the OP. Buy a laser mouse. A high end gaming mouse will solve your problem I am guessing. You are probably using some garbage optical mouse that came with your computer. A laser mouse is smoother and gives better reaction times then optical. Thus why high end gamers use it. It would be cheaper then buying a tablet and would probably solver your choppy unresponsive mouse problem.

http://www.tabletpcreview.com/

That link is a nice site that I have used before.

newegg that someone linked also is great to actually buying a pc. I would also compare prices from newegg to pricewatch.com

http://www.pricewatch.com/

This is my favorite site for buying parts. I haven't really found anywhere that can beat prices here online. Simply for the fact the site itself watches prices of alot of more common sites and then links to them aswell.

GeminiJuSa · Dec 05, 2009, 05:05 AM // 05:05

on the not looking at the tablet part, it's not that difficult to get used to. I think the tablet PC is quicker to learn/understand but all in all I think the tablet is a better choice as you'll come to think of the screen as the canvas and then move your hands as you usually do when drawing, only that you look at the screen. It's a matter of learning how to expect the pointer on the screen to move with your motions. To me the hardest part was controlling the pen on the tablet, and I am the face against the paper artist (I'm not kidding, when I was at the peak of my drawing I was literary resting my head on my left hand's fist to have a close loo at what I was drawing)

In my opinion the tablet PC's are better for (hand)writing rather than drawing.

http://geminijusa.bilddagboken.se/p/...2&directlink=1
Don't mind the language on the page... But that is drawn on a tablet PC. (no it's not a self portrait, it's made from a photo of a friend)

Tommy's · Dec 05, 2009, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Using Wacom Bamboo tablet, works like a charm. Few days to get used to, now we are best friends. Can recommend it to you, and isn't all that expensive. Bought it for 80 euro's. Working with a mouse is shit. All you can do with that, like GeminiJuSa said, is use pen tool, cause you get sucky lines. I got a good mouse, and still isn't going very well. Also I think a tablet is easier using the computers interface eitherway. Believe you only need a mouse for gw

Sierraa · Dec 05, 2009, 10:18 AM // 10:18

This is the Tablet I use

It's a pretty old tablet, but I received it as a gift in 2005. I haven't had any problems with it aside from my drivers occasionally not working but meh. Usually only takes a reboot to fix it. If you get a separate tablet I'd suggest a Bamboo if you can afford it. I've heard nothing but good things about them, and they are fun to work with. :] My friend lets me borrow his sometimes.

Tablet PC's are kinda hit and miss imo. HP sucks when it comes to laptops. They have awful support, awful drivers that are usually outdated, and HP laptops tend to have a lot of over heating problems. I kinda feel like it's easier for me to draw on a separate tablet and look at the screen. I never had a problem with it ever, and I kinda feel like my lines aren't where I want them to be on a tablet PC. Like, they're always a little bit to either side of where I want them. (If that makes sense ~~)

Getting a high DPI laser mouse is a good investment if you don't mind holding something bulky and trying to either trace your lines or create them yourself. I find it easier (and it feels more natural) to use a tablet pen I guess. I used to do line art in photoshop with my Logitech G5 mouse and it was easier than say... A bad laptop USB mouse, but it still didn't match a tablet pen.

Over all, I'd say if you're going to be doing digital art, you should invest in a separate tablet, and if you have money left over, treat yourself to a decent mouse. :]

GeminiJuSa · Dec 05, 2009, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sierraa

Tablet PC's are kinda hit and miss imo. HP sucks when it comes to laptops. They have awful support, awful drivers that are usually outdated, and HP laptops tend to have a lot of over heating problems. I kinda feel like it's easier for me to draw on a separate tablet and look at the screen. I never had a problem with it ever, and I kinda feel like my lines aren't where I want them to be on a tablet PC. Like, they're always a little bit to either side of where I want them. (If that makes sense ~~)

I can confirm the HP computer thing. My roommate has an HP, it's constantly on very high heat and although it cost about €1200 it is about as nice as my two year old Acer Aspire I bought for €500, but it IS three years old. The tablet PC I tried was also an HP, and it's the offset that makes the lines not appear where you want them. It's bad calibration (sorry for writing calculation earlier, I blame lack of sleep) and doesn't really get much better even if you recalibrate it, and as I said; it's expensive but still too poor for running photoshop.

Valeria · Dec 05, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

I just recently got my hands on a new bamboo fun. Really not that expensive.
Since you can move the cursor with your pen still 2cm above the tablet its not too hard to look on your screen instead at your pen.
(I still can't draw but thats a different issue. I newer was able to do so on real paper before)

but i still wonder how people draw faces and details. Most of them are so close to the resolution limit. Do you draw them big and then minimize them later?

tasha · Dec 06, 2009, 12:16 AM // 00:16

I'm using a Nysis seperate tablet because when I got it I wasn't sure if I'd use it and didn't want to shell out for a Wacom. The company doesn't exist any more and I don't recommend getting one - it has no pressure sensitivity and driver support is practically 0. That being said, I couldn't imagine doing any serious kind of art without a tablet of some kind. There is a learning curve but its not that bad - I'd probably use mine over my mouse if the active area went onto my second screen.

Personally faced with the choice you have I'd go for the tablet. I made a bad choice with mine and it won't take me so much cash to fix that as if I'd gone for the wrong tablet pc.

Minami · Dec 06, 2009, 02:08 AM // 02:08

I have a Wacom Bamboo Fun tablet, and I wouldn't part with it.
Pressure sensitivity is awesome, and I have no problem only looking at the screen while drawing.
It never even occurred to me to look down on the tablet.

It might take a little time to get used to that the surface of the tablet corresponds to the size of your screen, meaning there is no drag-and-draw like with a mouse (start a line then having to readjust your mouse cuz you're running off the mousepad), the table is seamless.

The easiest and fastest way to get used to it is to use it for everything. From opening programs to clicking the refresh button in your browser. It took me no time to be comfortable with it.

It's absolutely horrible to try and draw with a mouse, that is, if you're planning on drawing anything more complex than stick figures. I have a touchpad on my laptop and even that is the suckiest thing to use for drawing.

The cool thing about the Wacom Bamboo Fun tablet compared to some other ones is that you don't need a battery for the pen. The only thing you'll need (if you draw a lot) is replacement nibs for the pen, cuz after a while they wear down.
Of course it's super easy to replace them, just pull out the old one with the extractor ring and put in the new one.

Anyways, this got kind of long, but TBH, I can't say enough good about the Wacom Bamboo Fun. It's a very very good deal for the price.

Hope this helped ^_^

BlueXIV · Dec 06, 2009, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Lol I'm getting a tabletpc in 2 weeks. We'll see how it goes.

Winstar · Dec 06, 2009, 04:21 PM // 16:21

First, thanks for all the feedback as its been really helpful and informative.

It turns out a friend of mine has an older bamboo tablet and I managed to borrow it for a bit. Even though I was thinking about getting something like the Wacom Fun (though I think this might have been replaced recently by something else in the product line) I love it. There is certainly a learning curve, but its not that bad. Within a 1/2 hour things that seemed awkward started feeling normal. Using it for everything definitely helps warm up to it more quickly. Looking at the screen wasn't a problem from the start. It was my first instinct anyway. I have a long way to go, but it was obvious that this is going to be a huge improvement. I think I'll be going this route.

mathiastemplar · Dec 06, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minami Kaori

I have a Wacom Bamboo Fun tablet, and I wouldn't part with it.
Pressure sensitivity is awesome, and I have no problem only looking at the screen while drawing.
It never even occurred to me to look down on the tablet.

It might take a little time to get used to that the surface of the tablet corresponds to the size of your screen, meaning there is no drag-and-draw like with a mouse (start a line then having to readjust your mouse cuz you're running off the mousepad), the table is seamless.

The easiest and fastest way to get used to it is to use it for everything. From opening programs to clicking the refresh button in your browser. It took me no time to be comfortable with it.

It's absolutely horrible to try and draw with a mouse, that is, if you're planning on drawing anything more complex than stick figures. I have a touchpad on my laptop and even that is the suckiest thing to use for drawing.

The cool thing about the Wacom Bamboo Fun tablet compared to some other ones is that you don't need a battery for the pen. The only thing you'll need (if you draw a lot) is replacement nibs for the pen, cuz after a while they wear down.
Of course it's super easy to replace them, just pull out the old one with the extractor ring and put in the new one.

Anyways, this got kind of long, but TBH, I can't say enough good about the Wacom Bamboo Fun. It's a very very good deal for the price.

Hope this helped ^_^

Sry this is a bit off-toppic (but I did answer earlier^__^
- How do you replace the nip? I'm so afraid of breaking my pen q__Q Been using the same nip for a year now.. and it's kinda worn out.
Help me plz xD

Minami · Dec 06, 2009, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathiastemplar

Sry this is a bit off-toppic (but I did answer earlier^__^
- How do you replace the nip? I'm so afraid of breaking my pen q__Q Been using the same nip for a year now.. and it's kinda worn out.
Help me plz xD

^_^

Just grab the pen tip with something like tweezers or pliers (or use your teeth *lol*), and pull it out, then put the new one in.